Author Topic: CCJ - court date now! previous post debt not mine!, further help needed please!  (Read 7601 times)

keiranjfarrell

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Hi i wrote on here a few weeks ago and explained my situation http://www.debtforum.org.uk/index.php?topic=777.0
 
Since then after loads of trouble with the courts i finally managed to get them to process my application. Now i have a date come threw for march but i now need more help.
 
Ive never had to deal with anything like this before nor do i want to ever again. So i dont really know what the process is, what to say, what to argue which would suport my request etc.
 
Ive contacted legal aid and other other groups who were previously helping but have now been told the debt isnt large enough to need help (gob smacked with that statement as you would think the goverment and others would help before they spiral)
 
Ive been alerted via email to changes on my score these last weeks, since contacting the court the debt recovery company have updated the credit agrements section on my score, they have the cheek to put added info as "client did not inform of change of address" This is now on there and basically seems done to try and suport them selfs!
 
Why i would contact a company i never occurred a debt with about a change of address is beyond me, never mind the fact they have never contacted me and like i said before the 1st knowledge of this alleged debt was after they had the ccj processed.
 
One thing thats annoyed me as well is the fact this ccj is on my score even though ive asked the courts to hear my side and have a hearing to contest it, Isnt this illegal?? shouldnt this debt actually remain off my score untill all evidence and my sides heard. Thats the whole point in having a hearing! Its to stop this stupid debt recovery company putting something on my score, yet before ive had a chance to argue my case its on there!
 
Its obvious to me that the courts dont care what so ever for the defendant's and would process anything money 1st actual sorting the problem out last.
 
Ive spoken to a number of friends and their best advise is to just pay the debt and ive had friends who have had similar happen but never actually taken it to court, just payed. Obviously i dont want to do that because this debt isnt mine but im starting to think it would be alot easier. If i was to do that on the day would this then be removed from my credit score????
 
I just find it amazing that my credit score shows no agreements with any company with the account number the debt recover agency put on my score in the 1st place also the debt companys editing of my score when they obviously recieved contact from the courts informing them im taking it to be set aside is really peeing me off. This alleged debt is also showing up as start date oct 2004 on my score, now this is on there from the debt recovery company who ive been told had bought this alleged debt prior, if its actually showing as 2004 for the debt company that tells me that the alleged debt had occurred before that date with which ever credit company 1st sold goods. I mean thats obvious they buy debts, they bought this from somewhere and they show on my score as 2004.
 
Now i was going to argue that whome ever the debt belonged to anyways, the limitation act says that its statue barred being over 6 years, but now because they have got a ccj thats out the window, BUT SURELLY THEY WERE NOT ALLOWED TO GET A CCJ ON THE ALLEGED DEBT ANYWAYS SEEING AS IT WAS OVER 6 YEARS??? it shows as being start date 2004 oct so surelly thats the date wen this alleged debt was inputted onto my score? or even if they recently added it the start date with that company was over 6 years ago.They have updated how ever the default date and now saying thats july 2007, how can someone default with a recovery company, the default for the debt has already happened in 2004 according to my score!
 
They are just a recover company after all how can they say from oct 2004 - june 2007 when theres no actions taking place on that alleged debt or nothing going on with it that the debt then defaults on a debt! It was a debt they bought! Which tells me that the limitations act should be allowed to be used.
 
This is really getting me down and i appologise in advace for mistakes on here but im very tired with all the stress of it. Its just not knowing road to take now im finally getting a hearing.
 
what to argue, CAB tells me to contact the same people ive spoken to who can no longer help, all they can advise is i need to pick one argument to get it removed but seeing as theres 100s of diff reasons why this shouldnt be allowed in the 1st place its knowing what to do or say. If that makes any sense.
 
If someone could contacted me about this id be very greatful, If i was just to pay the dam thing would it be removed off my score? I dont know whether to just do that although ive spent more than the alleged debt in calls and paperwork and reg mail so it would only add insult to injury.
 
Keiran

solvent

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HI

OK, first of all sit down and have a cup of tea

Ive been through the exact same scenario

Going to court although seems scary, wont be for you. Why? It will be a small claims court, this means you will be in a small hearing with a judge and you and the other party in the other seat.

Now, collect everything you possibly have , any letters received by this creditor/DCA, as you will need to bring absolutly everything to help your case.

Did you send out a CCA to the debt collecting agency/original creditor to see the original agreement, so you can prove it was not yours?

They will have to provide original documentation with your signature on it to go any further. Now if your sure you never signed anything and it is not yours, then it sounds like underhand tactics to get you to pay.

Dont worry, the judge will first of all ask them, what is the debt? when did you sign it? and how much it was for?

If they do not have this, you are free and the judge can make them reverse the CCJ on your credit file.

Feel free to call/[** sorry, no personal contact invitations allowed **] (link in signature and Id be happy to help

keiranjfarrell

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Hi there, cheers for replying.
 
Yes your correct ive never signed for anything, ive asked for information via the solicitors representing this debt recovery firm and got no where all ive been told is that this recovery firm buy debts, the debt was occurred between 2004-2009 their saying. Apperently they deal with mail order, now i know for a fact i have never nor would ever buy via mail order and would assume this would require a signiture?. The courts were useless didnt help one bit what so ever infact made the entire process of just applying to counter claim against the claiments basically impossible.
 
This is one of the reasons im getting so annoyed no one can pin point nor give me 100% info on what the alleged debt is for, I wrote to the solicitors as soon as id managed to get my application processed, informing them that i would be fighting it and also giving details of the police log number i got etc, i basically informed them that they need to tell their clients to investigate as the debt is not mine. I asked for more information, They replyed "thank you for contacting us in regaurds to the above ref number, we have put your case on hold for 28 days and look forward to hearing from you" Not one bit of information of what its for.
 
I spent £8 getting the ccj off the regerstary website as i was told by the courts this would give me more information. Its gave me less, Ive spent since dec £209 in phone calls, £22 in registered post which contained cheques, £75 processing fee, yet each time the courts said they had disappeared. £6.99 x 2 credit ref agencies x 3 months, The debt is for £340. Ive probally spent more than that amount in just getting it stoped.
 
So your saying they defo have to provide proof of a signiture? Because there is no way in the world ive ever signed for anything nor entered no contracts. This should be very interesting. A debt advice line said they would need a signiture and proof of contact and contracts etc which is why im baffled knowing the courts have processed this when i know for a fact nothing exists.
 
I was wondering if also the fact that their dates are all over the place would help me prove its not mine and how incompetent they are, the fact that i have a copy of my credit score from dec when i 1st heard about all this and i now have another copy and they have edited information in the added field box, Now it says i handnt informed them i changed address, There was nothing there on the original copy, surely thats saying something when i havent admitted the alleged debt then they have added that.
 
The rest of my credit score is upto date and all green and i have several current credit agreements going on for the past years without issue, im hoping to argue that point accross, why the hell would i want one measly amount they are claiming for goto court and have a ccj placed on it if it was mine or they had contacted me! This wouldnt of happened if they had made contact i could of had this blown out the water before their shady tacticts. Its almost like they dont care who they point the finger at as long as they get a result.
 
The only evidence i can provide is the fact the debt doesnt appear on my credit score as an agreement with any company prior to this debt recovery, Debt advice company have told me that this alleged debt should appear on my credit score before the recovery company, there should be information with the account number to whome ever the debt is with, example if it was 02 it should say start date etc and default date with "02" then after be another file added which would be the recovery company, but there is not one thing on there just this recovery company. Surelly it would appear as a default with the original company on my score then this debt company after if it was a ligit claim against me. Its like in the past ive had a company many years ago send a letter asking for a debt for a mobile contract, i rang this company and they said it was dated 2001 or something to which i replyed well i wasnt even 15 years old then so explain that one? to which they said they would remove it from my mums address and my name. It does seem these days they can just put anything against anyone without just cause or proof.
 
One other thing the debt recovery company start date is oct 2004 as i said before yet their saying the account defaulted in july 2007, how can someone default on a default, they have just messed about with the dates.
 
TBH im not looking forward to sitting facing this company nor its solicitors as they have done nothing but give me hassle i feel like i could loose it with them but obviously cant do that. The original case was in northampton ive got it moved here to manchester, it seems the fact the original case was sorted all that distance away is abit suspicious, its almost done dilib so that i would give up and pay, after all its taken calls and paperwork, post, stress. Im sure they picked that place on purpose.
 
Just to make sure they defo will have to provide proof that i signed for what ever it is they're claiming? Because that makes me feel a million times better because my signiture is only on my bank cards and passport i never signed for anything.
 
Keiran
 

solvent

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Ok Keiran, send off now the following letter:

Dear Sir/Madam

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxx
YOUR REF: xxxx

IDO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

With reference tothe above account, I request that you send me a true copy of thiscredit agreement before I will correspond further on thismatter.

This is my right under the legislation containedwithin section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act1974, and I am entitled to receive a copy of my credit agreement onrequest.

Your obligation also extends to providing me with astatement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order, which representspayment of the statutory fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. Iunderstand that a copy of my credit agreement should be suppliedwithin 12 working days from the date of this letter.

Iunderstand that under the Consumer Credit Act, creditors are unableto enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for acopy of the agreement under these sections of the Act.

Also,since you are a Debt Collection Agency, I would also ask that yousupply a signed true copy of the executed deed of assignment for theabove referenced agreement. This is an obligation, whether you arethe original creditor or not, under section 189 of the ConsumerCredit Act 1974.

For the sake of clarity, may I also draw yourattention to the following:
Consumer Credit Act 1974 s.175
Whereunder this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment asagent of the creditor or owner under the regulated agreement, heshall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor orowner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to himforthwith.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminaloffence under the above Act and will result in a report beingsubmitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

In summary, IDO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THIS DEBT AND THEREFORE REQUIRE YOU TOSUBSTANTIATE THIS BY PROVIDING THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTATION BEFORE ICORRESPOND FURTHER :

1. True copy of original signed executedcredit agreement
2. FULL Statement of account
3. Copy of theexecuted deed of assignment from (original creditor) and (DCA)
4.A fair processing notice.

As you are aware, a credit agreementthat is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totallyunenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence toany court claim that is issued.
If they cannot prove it...you owe nothing......

If you have signed nothing...you owe nothing....

Legally they have to comply by law to the above, so, send it recorded delivery (to prove they have received it) and then wait to see if anything turns up...if you have signed nothing as you state, you will be ok. You can also take proof of sending the above to the judge and say they didnt comply.

keiranjfarrell

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Hi i sent a CCA request off to the solicitors and this company.
 
I received this letter back today.
 
"Dear sir,
 
We write further to your letter dated the 11th february 2011 and note the contents.
 
As you are aware our client has obtained a judgement against you, Our client is entitled to enforce this judgement and is not obliged to comply with a section 77/79 request at this point. Therefore we return your fee of £1.00.
 
We look forward to hearing from you with payment proposals failing which will result in enforcement action being taken."
 
Are they for real im currently waiting for my court date! To set aside this ammount i have been given this date! There on about taking action when im disputing it, they wont even allow me to see what the debts for!! So im being told i owe and ammount and they wont even allow me to have this information.
 
What should i do now, this has goto be againt the law. They cant just not give me info.
 
Keiran

solvent

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HI
Listen dont worry.........

Take the response letter in together with everything. You have nothing to fear going to court. It will not be like a court you see on a TV drama...it will be a room with a table and chairs and that is that.

The first thing they have to prove to the judge, is that you owe the money, if they cant , you owe nothing.

So go along on the date and it should all be over rather quickly


keiranjfarrell

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Im not bothered about going to court i have insisted on making sure this goes to court. The current court action is my doing, my request and my money has payed for the application, Im not having them rip me off.
 
Ive been asked by several people "whats the debt for" The courts them self told me to contact them, now ive applyied to find out and their refusing to tell me, i want to know. At the end of the day the only evidence i can bring would be in regaurds to what ever they are claiming if i dont know what its apperently for how can i provide evidence i cant just bring my entire life for the past years on paper and hope what ever they say clashes.
 
If i knew what the allleged amount was for i could then argue the case. From the letter it sounds to me like they obviously have no proof. Otherwise it would of been sent. Prooving ive signed a form would be benificial for them. This just shows in my eyes they have no proof. But that begs the question why the hell did the judge allow it in the 1st place.
 
Im entitled to know what the ammount is for before i actually goto the claims court, otherwise im going in there with no plan of what to say. Their obviously claiming some documentation becuase it was allowed in the 1st place. Who do i complain to if they wont provide this?
 

shocksoc335

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I'm confused the letter suggests the lender already has a CCJ registered against you, you can't be sued twice for the same debt? The letter in itself should be proof that this DCA is using underhand tactics.  (That is if this is for a CCJ hearing - I'm getting a little lost).

You know you could always request an adjournment so that the lender provides the court with proof that you owe the debt, a DJ can agree to this for eg - 3 months-  if the lender can't provide proof the debt will be struck out from the Court.

So it still might turn out well!

You can always check if you have a CCJ on the following -

Registry Trust Ltd
 
153-157 Cleveland Street
 London
 W1T 6QW
 Tel: 020 7380 0133
 
Supporting 'Practical Debt Advice' by Elizabeth Mc

keiranjfarrell

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Right i have already said on the previous thread in january which is linked above..... that this solicitor gained a ccj against me without prior notice nor contact. In dec i just recieved a letter threw the door stating a ccj had been put against me for £340! No prior paperwork nor info before hand so i couldnt of stoped this claim.
 
I Had no notice of this nor conact regaurding this alleged debt, i then imidiately contacted the courts to contest this in dec, they told me i would have to apply for it to be set aside, it took a month of passing paperwork back and fourth untill mid jan before the application was accepted for "setting aside" I registered every letter and the courts said that cheques id stapled had magically got out of the envolopes, that forms were missing etc and it took forever to get a hearing for this alleged debt.
 
That date is next month march 15th. This company had never contacted me and the courts never sent any proir notice before the ccj, if they had of done i would of had this all stoped before it got to this stage, This is why i am so annyoned! Luckly for me id been complaining to royal mail prior to this about mail i hadnt been receiving. But im not beliving for one min that they even sent a letter, it seems dilib they have not made contact. The ccj was given as default because obviously i didnt goto court because i had no idea.
 
Now im in court next month to get this thing removed and want to know what the hell they are claiming i owe money for, i have wrote all this on the above link when i previously posted in january. They wont give me this info. Everyone knows that the courts send letters 2nd class and and its obvious this company had never contacted. This company have gone to court i never received notice nor was contacted so knew nothing about it untill i recieved the actual ccj.
 
My credit score has no agreements with anyone and no markers what so ever untill this alleged debt was put on to which i was only made aware when i recieved this ccj, now with court action. Theres no agreements with any company what so ever on my credit score with the account number and my score is all green accept for this alleged debt appearing. The debt recovery firm and solicitors are refusing to tell me what its for which is crazy, they cant expect to say i owe an amount then provide no proof nor evidence to this alleged debt.
 
I know full well ive never aquired this alleged debt, all payments on all credit agreements as my score shows are ontime and all green and there should be an original agreement on my score to what ever this debt recovery firm claim if the debt was mine but there isnt, just the recovery firm have appeared. They just seem to of picked anyone and dilib made sure i wasnt informed and gained a ccj regaurdless of the fact its not my debt.
 
I need to know what its for so when im in court i can prove its not mine, ive asked for original copys of the agreement but like ive said they wont even let me know what its for and even though im in court and ive been told by the court that untill after the hearing this company cannot do a thing they have wrote saying they want payment, totally ignoring the court action and fact im not acknowleging it!
 
To make it easier go to my other post that explains in order of whats going on and what the problem is.

keiranjfarrell

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One other thing it already says on my previous post i payed £8 to the registery trust and its been logged against me

shocksoc335

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Hi again, It sounds at though you are well prepared!

If you miss a hearing date that has been set by the court and you now have a court judgment or order, you can apply for the judgment to be set aside to allow a new hearing date. The court may agree to your application if you:

explain that you had a good reason formissing the hearing; (disputing the judgment but also not receiving the claim form, provide proof of postal probs also)

• would have had a reasonable prospect ofsuccess at the hearing (information re CCA request proving onus on the creditor to prove you owe the debt- would have defended the action if received the claim form on this basis)

You will need to give reasons why you did notgo to the hearing and explain any delay in yourapplication. (All of the above)

As someone mentioned in an earlier reply the hearing is informal, you will be allowed to speak and explain all of the problems you are experiencing. Ask the district judge to place the onus on the creditor to prove that you owe the debt and if not to set it aside or strike it out of court.  A district judge is not there to take the creditors side but to view things in a fair and reasonable way.

Hope this helps!

Shocksoc335




If the judgment is set aside then all enforcement action will then stop.
Supporting 'Practical Debt Advice' by Elizabeth Mc

keiranjfarrell

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Hi i already know all that hense this hearing to set it aside.
 
Ive already gone threw it all and got to this stage what i want is to know what the debt is for and i want proof of the original agreements but the solicitors wont provide me with that which i have been told above is a legal requirement.
 
Ive already wrote all the facts on this and the previous thread which said ive applyied to get it set aside.
 
I have never missed a hearing date which ive clearly said, i was never informed nor contacted for this alleged debt in the 1st place, all i knew about this was when the courts contacted with a ccj granted on default. If i had of been contacted it wouldnt of ever been allowed but the debt company obviously never had nor made any intentions of contacting me, this way they have a piece of paper which states i owe them money regaurdless of the facts being i dont owe them a penny.
 
Ive already been told by legal aid and different debt phone companys that they hear alot about companys doing this, they get the judgements without knowledge or contact then chase debts without proof. Judges auto give the defaulted jugement because the other person didnt show to court (because they dont know).

shocksoc335

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It sounds as though you are very well prepared so I wish you the best of luck.

The Office of fair Trade are investigating these companies as are the Financial Ombudsman we can only hope that if lots of people complain they will be shut down!

Kind Regards
Shocksoc335
Supporting 'Practical Debt Advice' by Elizabeth Mc

solvent

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Good Luck, let us know how it goes!

keiranjfarrell

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Hi, i wrote another letter to the solicitors on friday and registered it.
 
Today i recieved this letter from them,
 
"Please find attached for your information, a copy of the Notice of Discontinuance forwarded to Manchester County Court."
 
Then a Notice letter. "Take notice, that the claimant hereby wholly discountinues this action against the defendant. We certify that we have given notice of discontinuance of proceedings to every defendent against whome the claimant desires to discontinue."
 
Now ive spoken to the courts about this and they said i will still have to goto court on the 14th of march to get the ccj set aside, which is the action i requested in the 1st place. Yet the woman on the phone said it will not be automatically removed unless i sign an agreement with the claimant before this date and even then the judge may decided not to remove it.
 
Considering i now have the claimants stopping action this should be a shut and cut case though yes? The alleged debt was wrong in the 1st place being put on my credit score and chased against me, the solicitors and company chasing the money now know they have no proof and with discontinuing proceedings i assumed it would be auto removed seeing as they now know its unchasable.
 
I assume as soon as i goto court the judge will see these letters and just order them to remove it, im correct in thinking that yes??